This article is from the September/October 2023 issue of Outreach magazine. Subscribe today!
Bishop Kenneth Ulmer presided over Faithful Central Bible Church in Inglewood, California, for 41 years. During that time, he oversaw a name change to reflect a shift to a moderate Pentecostal tradition. He also transitioned the church from a personality-driven model to a staff-oriented model, and oversaw the development of community-outreach initiatives like the Champion Counseling Center.
In February 2023, Ulmer handed over the reins to John-Paul “J.P.” Foster, the fourth pastor in the church’s 87-year history. Foster transitioned from studying to become a neurosurgeon to heeding God’s call to ministry his junior year of college. Foster served at Faithful Central Bible Church beginning as young adult pastor in 2015, then as assistant pastor in 2019, and co-pastor in 2021. The transition to senior pastor was the culmination of a year of deliberate planning, with the aim of more effectively reaching the next generation in the rapidly changing community.
We caught up with Ulmer and Foster to talk about what has made their transition successful, what they’ve learned about each other through the process, and how God’s faithfulness has sustained them.
Bishop Ulmer, I understand you two have had a mentoring relationship.
Ulmer: We’ve been together about seven years. It was very clear to me that my “Moses” season was coming to an end, and J.P. was the next “Joshua.” So, relationally it’s been well. I announced [the transition] a year ago, so that gave people time to cry or get mad and recover.
The transition has gone pretty well. In terms of the church, I couldn’t be more pleased. I mean, J.P.’s off the chain, man. He’s rising every week, and I’m just so excited about it. But I have got to tell you, from my personal perspective, it’s tough.
What’s making it challenging?
Ulmer: I had a professor at Oxford who said, “We order our lives around the rhythms of our relationship with God.” Think about that. She was a Dominican nun, so they prayed three times a day. Then she said, “Even our Protestant brothers and sisters are on a seven-day cycle.” So, my rhythm is off. That’s what I’m dealing with now—getting into a new rhythm.
In the last four or five months, I’m being tugged at more on a global level. I’m going to Amsterdam in a couple of weeks. I go to Zurich later on this year. I just did an international Zoom a couple of days ago. Also, the academy has always been a heartbeat of mine. About a year ago, I officially took the position as senior advisor to the president of Biola University. I’m going to be co-leading a doctoral program in the 2024 academic year.
So I’ve got a lot of options. I just want to prayerfully prioritize them, and realize that some options I still don’t need to take. I’m still trying to get into this new rhythm, and it’s all very positive, but it’s more challenging than I thought. I really ask the Lord to close every door that does not lead me further into his will.
J.P., what were your initial thoughts when you learned this transition was on Bishop Ulmer’s mind?
Foster: I thought he was crazy. [Laughs.] No, because it came from him, and I’d seen … Let’s rewind the tape to when I was switching from wanting to be a surgeon to answering God’s call to ministry. I knew he was ordering my steps. I didn’t know what it was going to look like. I didn’t know where I was going to be. I didn’t know any of those things. I didn’t grow up in church as a kid, so a lot of what I was experiencing and walking into was kind of new.
I did my undergrad at Biola, and then I did my master’s degree, and I was in seminary. I had a mentor, Pastor Welton Pleasant. He really helped me understand the church, and how the church moves. When it came to coming to Faithful Central, I know it was God’s will. But when I started seeing what God was doing at Faithful Central, I never said to myself, Oh, I’m going to be the next senior pastor of Faithful Central Bible Church.
In fact, Bishop and I had a conversation during my process of coming on board when I had no clue what God was going to do, where I was going to end up. But I knew at some point I was going to be a senior pastor somewhere. When Bishop and I sat down, and he talked to me, it agreed—I felt it in my spirit. Because it was coming from him and he’s such a man of integrity,
I knew how much he had invested his life in the church and how many people had come in and through the church, how many people he knows nationally and globally. Bishop could have chosen anyone to transition the church. So the fact that he was sitting down with me in his office across the table from me and he said that to me, I know he had to have heard it from God. It was just the right time. And I think the evidence of what the transition has been so far—and what we’re experiencing in the church right now—is showing more and more each week that Bishop had heard from God.
Bishop Ulmer, talk about this Moses-Joshua relationship that you two have been able to form.
Ulmer: You know, I think that there are [at least] two things the church—meaning the universal church, the global church—there are two things that we don’t do well. We don’t restore well, and we don’t transition well. If you fall, if you mess up, we’ll either shoot our wounded, or we close our eyes and act like nothing happened and try to forget about it. We don’t have a solid biblical procedure that we act on in terms of restoring. But secondly, we don’t we don’t transition well.
If you think about the big evangelical voices, the big voices of the church back in the day. Here in Los Angeles, there were always maybe five or six voices in different colors, different denominations here. But when those guys left, you don’t hear anything about those churches now. And I know that God is a God of seasons and everything, but I’m just saying, in terms of a given local church, think of the number of churches that you know that had two generational leaders of continued significant kingdom building.
Remember that passage where God tells Moses, go to the top of the mountain and look on the Promised Land? A Moses will see farther than he will go. God said, You see that over there? That’s where the people are going. But you’re not going. So, certainly for me, I could see farther than I could go. And then I think there’s a Joshua that will go farther than he can see. So, I saw in the spirit some of the things that are happening now, but I knew I couldn’t lead the people there. Remember that line where it says David served his generation? [Acts 13:36]. I don’t like the second part because it says he served and then he died. But at least it says he served his generation. You know, David says in the psalm, “Lord, let me be able to speak into this generation before I leave [Ps. 71:18]. And so I recognize it’s a new generation. I think one of the biggest challenges of the church globally is to deal with this … godless is a hard way to put it … but certainly this carnal culture. There’s a generation that has been victims of a carnal culture. I knew in my spirit that was not where I was going. I looked over, you know, the Jordan and I saw farther than I could go.
On the other hand, like [with] Moses, God was very clear. Joshua is the man. It’s Joshua’s time. I think there’s a Moses in every leader: You have visions for that company or whatever, and you can’t take it where it’s going. That’s when God calls us to recognize that our season is coming to an end. But how do we steward the journey of that season? And we do that by passing it on to the next [leader].
J.P., what were some of the waypoints that gave you the confidence that 1) this was what God was calling you to, and 2) that you could do it?
Foster: There were a few markers. One is just my track record in my relationship with God, being saved, saying yes to Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, saying yes to changing my whole journey in school to go into seminary. Those are things I never thought of ever doing.
I’ve seen God every step of the way, from undergrad to seminary and now finishing my doctoral program. God has met every single one of my needs. He’s never failed me. I’ve gone through obstacles, ups and downs. That’s inevitable in everyone’s life. But God’s faithfulness, his continued grace, his continued favor on my life has not changed. So, I say to myself, The same God who has led me this far [is] the same God who’s going to keep me going forward. You can do all the planning you want to, you can have all the education that you want to, but if you’re not humble and you don’t surrender yourself to God, then at some point you’re going to lose yourself in it.
I understand God is doing something at Faithful Central that’s bigger than me. People have said to me, “Those are some huge, huge, big shoes to fill.” I understand what people are saying when they say that, but I’m trusting the same God who filled his shoes to fill mine. I’m not trying to wear Bishop’s shoes. First of all, God’s not done with him. God still uses him in the kingdom and in a magnificent way. And I just have to see that if God can touch a man’s life like this, why can’t the same God who’s done it for him do it for me?
So all my money in the bank is on God. The things that I’ve seen God do through Bishop’s life are inspiring, and it makes me dream bigger. It makes me trust God on another scale. And it really humbles me because I know people don’t know the Bishop Ulmer that I know. Because I’ve been you know, when you see Moses and Joshua in the Scripture, it says his assistant. I’ve done everything I could the last seven years under Bishop’s leadership to serve him in any capacity: handing him water, holding his bag, open to whatever he needs. I was willing to help him regardless. You know, some people do it with other intentions.
Being around him, I’ve gotten to know Bishop Ulmer, and I’ve seen his heart for the kingdom. I’ve seen his diligence in studying and the lengths he would go to help people and then have to minister at the same time. You just don’t see it. And I joke with him about this, about this Kobe-M.J. (Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan) thing. To me, he’s like M.J. It was inspiring for Kobe to see a guy like Michael Jordan work so hard, train so hard. And for me, I’ve been like a sponge around Bishop. I’m not afraid to ask questions. I’m not afraid to learn. I just want to be the best at what God’s called me to do I possibly can be. It doesn’t matter where he is in the world, I can always reach him. And if I’m going through something or I need advice for something, he’s there for me. So I’m just grateful. I really am grateful.
It’s always difficult to transition when a church has had a very visible leader. There can be power dynamics or things that you need to walk through or discuss. Talk me through the succession process.
Foster: Yeah. Yes.
What were some of those dynamics that helped this be a healthy process?
Foster: I have to give credit to Bishop Ulmer on multiple levels with this. Just our initial conversations. [Both of] us being honest about what our fears were or concerns were in the beginning. Laying those things on the table and figuring out how to sort through them. I think that’s how you get honesty, vulnerability and transparency. Once we started coming up with a plan that would position both of us in a healthy place and also make sure the congregation was well, that was the key.
And that just says a lot about his heart, because he wanted to make sure, How can I do this so that the sheep are OK? Once we focused on the kingdom and focused on the people, I think everything else fell in place when I was co-pastoring. Bishop was very intentional at letting me lead the meetings. Sometimes he would share and sometimes he wouldn’t. After the first few, he would say, “Excellent job, son.” He may have given me a pointer or two: “Hey, make sure you do this,” [or] in some of my responses he would say, “Hey, that was a great response, but remember, people may read tone. I know what you mean, but you have to make sure you fully explain.” After the first three times leading, I think it just took off and he was comfortable not even to be in the meetings.
Then we started splitting the preaching. He started having me preach at least once a month, and then two times a month. I think that’s when I really got the bond with the congregation. He would pick a series. We would sit and talk through the series and what [we were] thinking. And then when it came to decision-making and building the team, when it really got close to the transition, Bishop said, “Hey son, what do you need in order to transition? What do you want? Let’s talk about it before we make this next year’s budget so that the budget supports your new vision.”
Bishop went out of his way—and I’m trying not to get emotional now—to text my wife, call my wife, check on my kids. And for me, that meant everything. To have him not just want to make sure that the church was doing well, but to make sure my family was doing well. He knew that I was having to be away from my family more because we were transitioning and he would call my wife and say, “Hey, I know this was a rough month for you. How are you doing? How are you hanging in there?” He wanted to make sure that the church thrived and my family was well. And to me, that was priceless.
Were there any challenges or struggles that you guys faced during the transition process? And how did how did you overcome those together?
Ulmer: I think J.P.’s biggest challenge is going to be establishing that he is the pastor. They’re going to test him a couple of times, especially on the board level and leadership level. I think it’s that kind of transition period that looks good on paper, but relationally, you know …
For example, one of the members of our church called me, not J.P., a couple of hours after her son was killed. She’s been very supportive and very much in J.P.’s corner, but my point is that’s going to happen. There are people that I’ve walked with that don’t know him in that pastor role. It ain’t personal. It’s just part of the transition.
I think my main concern is I don’t want him to make the mistakes that I made. I mean, find your own mistakes, mess up on your own, but don’t make the same mistakes. You’ll notice Joshua never hit a rock the way Moses did. Now, he made some other mistakes, but he didn’t make that mistake.
So, J.P., from your perspective, what have been some challenges during this process, and how have you been able to overcome those challenges?
Foster: One of the challenges is not having Bishop’s presence. I would preach and he would support me. He would cheer. I mean, [it’s] just different [now].
The second thing is I think that people were nervous about what Sunday was going to look like. Bishop is one of the most dynamic preachers in our nation and globally, I would say. I think I’ve been able to overcome [preaching in his shadow] by strictly preaching what the Bible says. It’s hard to argue with the Bible. I’ve been very intentional on preaching the Word and being as biblical and accurate, and contextualizing it as possible.
I think that some of the older members worried, “Well, what’s going to happen to us?” I’m a people person. I think my being very personable with them and praying with them and taking the time to show them that we value them—those things have gone a long way. And now I’m hearing feedback from our older members just thanking me. This past Mother’s Day service I made sure that every single mother in our church got a rose. I made sure that the mothers who were caring for their mothers got blessed. And that’s a big statement for the older generation, blessing the older generation.
My two goals have been to preach the Word and to love the people. I think that the more they see my heart, the more they’re opening up to me. It’s going to take a while, I think maybe two or three years, for people to be like, Wait a minute, he’s our pastor.
I have to focus on serving them regardless of what they say, and ultimately trying to glorify God. With everything I do, I have to make sure that I answer to God in my message, in how I preach. Is it accurate? Is God pleased? And how am I loving his sheep? Because they’re not mine. That mindset has really helped me. I don’t have to be the smartest. I don’t have to be the most talented and most gifted. But I don’t think anyone’s going to outwork me. I’m going to work harder than anyone else. And that’s just how I am. I’ve always, always done whatever I have to do to work as hard as I have to [in order] to honor God, glorify God and be successful.
J.P., as you’re looking forward to the future of the church, what are some of your hopes and your visions, and what makes you excited about the next chapter?
Foster: There’s a lot that makes me excited. One of the first things I wanted to do—and Bishop and I know some of the challenges we’re having in our, I’ll say “Jerusalem” in Inglewood—is really have a major presence in our city. Our demographics are changing. We have more than 60% Latino [population]. We now have an influx of white and Asians coming to the city as the SoFi Stadium is built and the Intuit Dome is coming. So, I really want to have a huge impact in in the community for building champions. Our slogan is: Building champions for victorious living. We’re building a child-development center at our church.
I want Faithful Central to be the place where families can thrive. So we’re really pouring into our children’s ministry, really trying to support the mothers and the fathers who are in our community. I want people to know if you have children, you bring them here, they can thrive. We’re putting money, a lot of support, into our kids going to college. We really want to support education. So we’re doing that. We’re having different STEM programs that we’re having in the summertime. We’re doing a lot in the community. So that’s one of our focuses on families. We actually started something we’ve never done before. We have a pastor of family and marriage. So we’re really pouring into marriages to allow marriages to thrive. We think if we can do that, that would be huge. Because the more you can keep families together, the stronger families are, the stronger the community is.
We also have a phenomenal counseling center that I inherited under the leadership of Bishop Ulmer. It’s one of the premier counseling centers [called] the CCC, the Champion Counseling Center. University students come and get their hours there. So we’re partnering, we’re trying to find ways to bring awareness to mental health, [and] seeing how we can serve in that area of mental health, because it’s huge now. We’re also doing something with our youth where we’re really building a place for youth to have fun. We have activities, we do pop-ups. We’re working on [starting] sports clinics, so it’s a place that the parents can bring their kids [where] they can be safe.
Discipleship is always one of our core principles. Now we’re also doing it not just in person, but online. We’ve revamped our groups. We have about 2,500 people so far this year monthly who meet in groups. So that’s one of our places that people can be built and grow in the different areas that they’re trying to grow in their relationship with God. We made a shift in how we disciple throughout the week, so we’ve now been bringing some concepts of apologetics to really evangelize to those who are struggling with certain questions with their faith in our community with minorities.
I really feel good about where things are going. One of the things that keeps me going is one of the sermons that one of Bishop’s sons preached in the transition: “God never says good start. He says well done.” So that keeps me humble and that keeps me hungry. God never says good start. And I’m not diminishing God’s favor. I’m not diminishing God’s hand on us. I’m just saying that you can’t get caught up in the, you know, the fireworks and the handclaps and the and the pats on the back. Ministry is dangerous. People die in ministry. People are depressed in ministry. People commit suicide in ministry. If you don’t really understand whose you are and who you are, it can kill you.
So I’m really pressing into looking down the road at 40-something years like Bishop, and what does this look like in the long run? I really want to have a huge impact on the community and our family champions to be built to be the people God’s called them to be.